Stock th400 vs 700r4 with shift kit

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Burban1990

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My truck originally came with th400 which I prefer but the previous owner had 700r4 with shift kit put in it. I assume due to gears and keeping rpm down on freeway. It runs fine but never been a fan of the 700r4 and was curious, would a shift kit make that much of a difference for reliability? Ive never owned a 700r4 with a shift kit but have destroyed a factory
700r4 and 70k miles. Owned 2 th400 and one had 200k and still shifted like new.
 

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A shift kit, by itself, will not fix the weaknesses of a 700R4.

The 4 speed can be built to a decent standard, but there's a lot of math.
 

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There is way more that goes wrong with a 700r4 than what a shift kit addresses.The 4l60e is a little better,but For durability it's th400 or 4l80e in my opinion
 

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Im now dealing with my first 700r4. Its not doing anything its not supposed however I cant stand the 1-2 shift. First is a little too low and 2nd too far from first. If i could have the 1rst from a 200r Id be a little happier
 

idahovette

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Im now dealing with my first 700r4. Its not doing anything its not supposed however I cant stand the 1-2 shift. First is a little too low and 2nd too far from first. If i could have the 1rst from a 200r Id be a little happier[/QUOTE......2004R in my 66 Nova SS clone shifts really good. 2000-2200 stall convertor and a shift kit really works good
 

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Guess what, other than a very few minor differences, the internal parts of a 700 and 4L60 are exactly the same. The later 4L60s did include some durability upgrades, but the basic design is the same. Same clutches, same band, etc. Obviously, the case, valve body and pump are different for the electric shift models, but the internals are basically the same.

The 4L65 and 4L70 are just upgraded 700/4L60. The additional strength is due to adding carriers with 5 gears instead of the stock 4.
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4 pinion on the top, 5 on the bottom.


The 3-4 clutch has always been a issue, especially in the early years. HydraMatic made some changes in the mid 80s to eliminate a lot of the failures. They originally had 5 clutches, then made design changes to add a 6th friction plate, the 4L70 added a 7th. In the aftermarket, the make a 9 clutch, which sounds great. Only problem, to fit 9 clutches where 7 fit means they have to get thinner. Thinner clutches don’t handle heat as well, they warp and glaze. Once that happens, it’s all downhill.

Raybestos solved the 3-4 clutch problem with their Z pac kit. It has 22 single sided clutches. That maintains the same friction and steel thickness. It’s really a slick setup.

Another weak point is the drive shell. The original part wasn’t heat treated. The internal splines either break or strip, leaving you with no reverse, no 2nd or 4th gear. Sonnax fixed that with their Smart Shell. I’m not even going to try to explain the difference, but it’s a much better design.


Bottom line, unless you have more than about 450-500hp, or really plan to beat on it, a 700 isn’t all bad. Unfortunately, like so many automotive things, they just can’t shake the reputation from the first couple trouble years.


The 700 will never be as durable as a 400. But the 400 eats more power, doesn’t have the first gear starting ratio, and no overdrive. The 400 has a 2.48 first gear, the 700 (and similar models) have a 3.06 first gear. I’m too lazy to do the math, but that’s like taking out a set of 4.10 gears and installing 3.42. Takes much more throttle to get the truck rolling. The overdrive makes those 4.10 gears cruise like you have the 3.42. Best of both worlds


If the 700 works ok, install a TransGo shift kit. Order a corvette servo, that will increase the clamping force of the 2-4 band. The shift kit will fix a lot of the durability issues designed into the trans. You need to keep in mind GM knew 99% of the new car buyers wouldn’t appreciate the soft girlie man shifts, so they designed the trans to kinda slide into gear. The instructions will specify what size to drill the spacer plate from basically stock to bang-screech, knock the dash of the truck.

You may also want to order a new spacer plate. There are several check balls (basically BBs) that seal against the plate. After a few thousand cycles, the check balls wear the plate, causing leaks. Transgo offers the plate and includes instructions on how to make it work in your particular trans model.

Lastly, if your going to work the truck, install a trans cooler. Make sure the TV cable is adjusted correctly.
 

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Yep. I knew the 700 got improvements over time, knew some,didn't know others about 700 mods.I think for the average guy the 4l60 is a lot safer, not as safe as th400 the 4l80 is not as safe a 400 either. IMHO the biggest problem with the 700 is line pressure modulation. 9 out of 10 guys are going to install them , never put a gauge on them. And burn them up. Did you say something about an updated sprag? Here I am not reading close enough again.
 
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Maybe an Art Carr 200r would hold up in a 4500 pound modified truck but not a stock one IMHO. I dunno though. They are great for a lot of stuff but getting hard to find cores too. I like the ratio range but the 4l80 is close enough and a good bit more robust. I just dont have 3k at the moment for a trans,controler, manual speedo tailshaft, etc.
 

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[QUOTE="Matt69olds, [/QUOTE]

Totally with you on all points. However I dont need a 500+hp trans, I just want a smooth transition from 1-2 instead of babying it in 1rst only to have to get back in it a little in 2nd. Cant imagine how short 1st is gonna feel once i do gears. If im dogging on it i dont really notice as much but when just moseying around its a bit of an annoyance.
Id like to eventually go to either a 4l80 or 6l80 but cant justify doing that without going LS
 

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Maybe an Art Carr 200r would hold up in a 4500 pound modified truck but not a stock one IMHO. I dunno though. They are great for a lot of stuff but getting hard to find cores too. I like the ratio range but the 4l80 is close enough and a good bit more robust. I just dont have 3k at the moment for a trans,controler, manual speedo tailshaft, etc.
If you pull a 4l80e out of a diesel truck you can grab the controller and controller harness at the same time. You can also modify 4l80e for a vacuum modulator and manual valve body or simple toggle shift control.Some of the aftermarket shift controllers don't even modulate line pressure, way to risky for me.But a 4l80swap doesn't have to be a big deal. Buy a rusted out 454 4l80 parts suburban. Now you have a driveshaft, transmission, fuel injection, transmission controller and a big block if you choose to run one.
 
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Swearbody

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If you pull a 4l80e out of a diesel truck you can grab the controller and controller harness at the same time. You can also modify 4l80e for a vacuum modulator and manual valve body or simple toggle shift control.Some of the aftermarket shift controllers don't even modulate line pressure, way to risky for me.But a 4l80swap doesn't have to be a big deal. Buy a rusted out 454 4l80 parts suburban. Now you have a driveshaft, transmission, fuel injection, transmission controller and a big block if you choose to run one.

I thought if you did the vacuum modulator and manual valve body you lost auto shift. Otherwise thats the way to go.
 

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Im now dealing with my first 700r4. Its not doing anything its not supposed however I cant stand the 1-2 shift. First is a little too low and 2nd too far from first. If i could have the 1rst from a 200r Id be a little happier

Tighen tv cable a click or 2
 

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Loving the hell out of my 600hp 700r4 with shift kit. On a 31" street tire, 4.10's, a 330 hp... she ****** gets it and barks the tires between.
 

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I thought if you did the vacuum modulator and manual valve body you lost auto shift. Otherwise thats the way to go.

Yes you do. That wouldn't bother me most of my stuff is manual anyway. And really unless loaded or on the highway I'd just use 2nd and 3rd anyway. 2nd is default for limp in mode.
 

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Loving the hell out of my 600hp 700r4 with shift kit. On a 31" street tire, 4.10's, a 330 hp... she ****** gets it and barks the tires between.
I have the tv cable set to about as far as you'd wanna set one to the high pressure side. It holds gear with light peddle into higher rpms of the gear. downshifts easily too...its not acting up at all. Its just a 700r4.
It could be partially due to the converter being a 2200stall and 2.76 gears, LOL. Once i have my 4.10s and 285/70s(30.5ish") I may just be right there with you. Hell 2nd is gonna feel like 1st does now,LOL... Ive looked over the trans ratios/gearing/tire size charts a dozen times and am pretty sure 4.10 is make me real happy.
 

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