Educate me on sanders

AaronW

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I'm currently sanding the cab on my 89 crew cab. Been getting by so far with attachments for my angle grinder: standard sandpaper on a backer pad, wire wheel run at the...ahem...usual several thousand rpm over the stated maximum (which mystifies me, like why they sell hot dogs and buns in different amounts), a flap discs, and so on.

I'm mostly a woodworker, so I've got your basic 5" random orbital sander, and I've also got an old black and decker 9531 7" sander/polisher, that I've never used, but which appears to run, and which is not an orbital action machine.

Questions:

1. So is a "dual action" sander the same as a random orbital sander?
2. Am I going to be able to be able to get my surfaces prepped and bondo/primer/paint sanded and wet sanded with the sanders I've got, or am I going to need to invest in some auto-body specific tool? I've only got a 50/50 duty compressor, and while I'm open to upgrading that in the future, I'm not going to have the money to do so very soon. So If there are electric version of a sander I'd need, that would be preferable. (I can only run a small cutoff tool for half a minute or so, before my compressor kicks on).

Aaron
 

waterpirate

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No exception for the random orbital. They are available in electric. Make sure what you gat is compatible to use/mount fine grit paper 400 ect.
Eric
 

AaronW

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No exception for the random orbital. They are available in electric. Make sure what you gat is compatible to use/mount fine grit paper 400 ect.
Eric

My orbital sander has a hook and loop pad on it, I guessI'll have to see if you can get 400 wet dry paper for it.

Aaron
 

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My orbital sander has a hook and loop pad on it, I guessI'll have to see if you can get 400 wet dry paper for it.

Aaron
you should be able to buy a different pad for the stick on sand papers instead of the expensive hook and loop ones
 

BlueMule

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Hi Aaron. Dual Action "DA" swirls two ways, but always the same two ways. Random Action "RA" means just that, the action is designed to be random, and that is why it works so well for clearcoats.

There is an unfortunate person who has a semi famous YouTube channel about automotive bodywork who calls every sander he has a DA, nope not all sanders are DA, only DA's are DA, hehehehehe.

As far as air vs electric, I am not sure how the metal, filler, and glazing dust might effect the electric sanders, obviously no wet sanding. But a DA is a DA, and a RA is an RA whether electric or air.

The question of air compressors for home use is really tough, especially if you are going to do any spraying, including primer. What folks don't realize is that while you are spraying the compressor runs all of the time, which is why you have to know how much your spray guns use in CFM and then use some percentage over that. I went with a Coleman compressor 60 gallon tank, 13.4 cfm at 40 psi. I use Iwata guns so they super air efficient, 9.5 cfm. Obviously, the compressor will still run during the painting, which is normal, but I don't need a 20 cfm unit.

Here is the best paint video on the Tube!
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R Carnella

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Dual action & orbital are the same. There are two varieties, fine/short throw and course/long throw.
You will need at least a fine/short dual action sander for finish work but preferably both. And when i say DA and orbital are the same I'm referring to all "rotary" type sanders if that makes sense.
 

dvdswan

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Well, let the education begin...

Sanders is a patronymic name, meaning son of Alexander. The name derives from the abbreviation xander, with Alexander deriving from the Greek "Ἀλέξανδρος" (Aléxandros), meaning "Defender of the people"
  • Barry Sanders - U.S. football player.
  • Bernie Sanders - U.S. politician.
  • Colonel Harland Sanders - Founder of Kentucky Fried Chicken.
  • Deion Sanders - U.S. football player.
  • George Sanders - British actor.
  • Larry Sanders - U.S. comedian.

Ok, kidding aside, sanders will be used for the initial sanding to get to the surface prepped for fillers/skim coats. Block sanding after that will give the best results even though it's a huge project.
 

BearKing

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Well, let the education begin...

Sanders is a patronymic name, meaning son of Alexander. The name derives from the abbreviation xander, with Alexander deriving from the Greek "Ἀλέξανδρος" (Aléxandros), meaning "Defender of the people"
  • Barry Sanders - U.S. football player.
  • Bernie Sanders - U.S. politician.
  • Colonel Harland Sanders - Founder of Kentucky Fried Chicken.
  • Deion Sanders - U.S. football player.
  • George Sanders - British actor.
  • Larry Sanders - U.S. comedian.

Ok, kidding aside, sanders will be used for the initial sanding to get to the surface prepped for fillers/skim coats. Block sanding after that will give the best results even though it's a huge project.
dvdswan is correct. The air/electric sanders are used only for body prep which pretty much means stripping the body down to bare metal. You can use a DA sander for shaping body filler but a good body man will use his long board and other types of sanding blocks. 3M makes really nice long boards and hand held sanding blocks. When I went to Autobody/Automotive Painting tech school about 400 years ago, we used the 3M stuff as it was the new thing in the Body shop. I still use mine today. Word of advice. Before any body filler is applied, always spray a coat of PPG Epoxy primer like DP 90. One of our instructors was Jon Kosmoski. He is the founder/owner of House of Kolor. I have painted many car in my time and have won awards like Best in Show from Car Craft. Just some things for thought. There are MANY different ways to do bodywork on automobile. You just need to find out what works for you. Good Luck with your endeavor.
 

AaronW

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All:

Thanks very much for the replies and various suggestions. As you can see, I'm a total newbie at this. Overall, the project is a little less huge, since I'm installing a flatbed, and just have the cab. I've got compressor issues with regard to sanding, but actually, I'm in pretty good shape as regards spraying. I've got a 4 stage Fuji HVLP sprayer that I use for spraying lacquer, etc..., and so I'm independent of an air compressor there. Obviously that doesn't solve my problem with air supply on the prepping side, though. I've been reading quite a bit on this site, and watching some youtube videos, so thanks for the link to a specific video. It's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff, when you don't know what you're doing to start with.

On the lighter side, per Bear's reply: I'm now going to chuckle about "alex-sanders", everytime I use one, so thanks a lot. I'm a historian in my regular profession, did a lot of Russian history in grad school, which means I often have occasion to talk about people named Aleksandr. Dang it.

Finally: I get the sense here, that I really should get everything down to bare metal, as ooposed to just scuffing. Would that hold true for the cab floor as well? I'm going to rhino line that, no carpet, so I just need it to adhere, looks not being an issue there.

Aaron
 
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Lil'm

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Nick Sandman. Multi-millionaire!

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70SBUDGET

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Aaron, from one woodworker to another, it all in the preparation! You already know this. There is a chemical bond and a mechanical bond. Prep per manufacture directions, DO NOT DEVIATE!

Honestly, sand by hand. With your woodwork experience you will be able to feel the difference in what needs to be addressed! Sanding blocks are your friend!

After applying, it’s all about how much work you want to put in! Do you mind your paint job looking like a new Mercedes/orange peel or do you want it mirror flat?

Up to you! Do you want to raise the grain or do you want to sand dry?
 

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DanMcG

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70SBUDGET Is your el camino GM artic white? looks nice!​

 

70SBUDGET

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DanMcG, I’ll have to ask dad. It was a single stage ppg or DuPont. That does sound familiar. Thank you. I still have wet sanding nightmares!
 

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@AaronW, I would not want to have to use air for sanding. Especially if you’re limited in cfm capacity.
For all the rough work, stripping/prepping old paint and any larger bondo work, whatever will hog material off the fastest and stay flat is what matters imo.
Block sanding, feels like it would be the most efficient with a long block DA, but $$ and air capacity is an issue. Idk maybe there are electric ones.
Any fine sanding aka, anything that is prepping primer for paint or any stages after that, most of it is hand sanding for me.
Partly because I much prefer wet sanding to dry.
FWIW, I did the whole blue truck with a razor blade, an electric pad sander (larger rectangular one that takes 1/3 sheet of paper), various sanding blocks and an air polisher.

I think I could have made the process quicker with a better tool or 2 but IMO, most of the time and effort was stuff that needed hand sanded anyway.
That said, my buddy got a cordless polisher and it is awesome! I’m good with my old air polisher that I spent a lot of money on 25 or 30 years ago, but would 100% recommend the cordless polishers that are out there.
 

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Sanders? "Park Bench Socialist" sums it up. Very annoying earnest 20something California musician chicks with names like "Soccer Mommy" think he's great.

He claims that "taxing billionares" will solve everything. "With $100 billion of Bill Gates' money, we could end homelessness!" Really now? If it only takes $100B, then GO DO IT! The Federal budget is ~$5.7T, surely you could shake loose a spare 1.7% increase? what? "Not that easy?" You're right, I just don't understand....
 

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