1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Could two power steering pumps be mounted to driver side?

Discussion in 'Tech Discussion' started by AuroraGirl, Jul 8, 2020.

  1. AuroraGirl

    AuroraGirl Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Age:
    22
    Posts:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    1,062
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2019
    Location:
    Northern Wisconsin
    First Name:
    Taylor
    Truck Year:
    1978, 1980
    Truck Model:
    K10, K25
    Engine Size:
    400(?), 350
    I see kits to mount saginaw up high, down low, and then the stock on mine which is center.

    Could someone buy a remote-reservoir meant for certain applications and use it to power a hydraulic accessory? I learned from you guys in a post in the past that using PS pump as-is to power a plow cylinder would likely mean you steer OR you lift, probably cant do both, and the PS pump has too litle capacity. I have a custom reservoir intended for this purpose, just dont have a pump to power the setup. These remote reservoir pumps.. did any come for small blocks, or maybe hydroboost?
    Did they use the same mounting hardware as a normal saginaw?

    Otherwise, i have a 60s mopar pump without a reservoir that I would probably need custom brackets for.. any thoguhts on that Haha?

    And off chance, anyone know of a PS clutch? Or perhaps the size of pulley shaft and maybe i could find a clutch that would fit? Googling yielded little, but i could be looking in the wrong spaces.
     
  2. Nonstop

    Nonstop Full Access Member

    Posts:
    318
    Likes Received:
    719
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2014
    Location:
    Ca
    First Name:
    Nick
    Truck Year:
    1985
    Truck Model:
    K2500
    Engine Size:
    454
    Physically you can, but it might be better to either get a pump specifically designed for that kind of set up or run an independent hydraulic pump controlled by an electric clutch for the plow. I could see problems occurring with a power steering pump riding against it’s pressure relief spring most of the time since it is not being used like a regular power steering pump (although I could be wrong).
     
    AuroraGirl likes this.
  3. AuroraGirl

    AuroraGirl Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Age:
    22
    Posts:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    1,062
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2019
    Location:
    Northern Wisconsin
    First Name:
    Taylor
    Truck Year:
    1978, 1980
    Truck Model:
    K10, K25
    Engine Size:
    400(?), 350
    Yeah I was thinking about that. Clutch wise. Its hard to find these setups, they arent common anymore. I really like the idea and it would be best for me, because even a good alternator is still asking a lot on electrical system for the electric pump. esp. with low usage.
     
  4. Grit dog

    Grit dog Full Access Member

    Posts:
    301
    Likes Received:
    328
    Joined:
    May 18, 2020
    Location:
    Washington
    First Name:
    Todd
    Truck Year:
    1986
    Truck Model:
    K20
    Engine Size:
    454
    Not sure what your end goal is here. Existing plow pump doesn't work, want to switch to full hydro just because you can, or some totally unrelated reason or simply out of curiosity?

    Either way, between personal and fleet trucks, been around, used and repaired a dozen or more plow trucks. Many including my own were old GM pickups with whatever battery and alternator they had in them in the 80's/90's. I recall no specific issues with the electrical systems on trucks mostly with Western electric pump setups and a couple of myers pumps. All 4 way setups all used for contract or commercial work. Sure I replaced some batteries and alternators over the course of 5-6 years, but the trucks were mostly all old and were all used hard all year except mud season.
    You can build anything you want. Had one old Ramcharger with a belt driven hydro pump. Idk what it was.
    But, good battery, good alternator, good wiring and if you literally are not using the truck except to fire it up and plow the driveway, throw a battery maintainer on it.
    KISS principle.
     
  5. AuroraGirl

    AuroraGirl Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Age:
    22
    Posts:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    1,062
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2019
    Location:
    Northern Wisconsin
    First Name:
    Taylor
    Truck Year:
    1978, 1980
    Truck Model:
    K10, K25
    Engine Size:
    400(?), 350
    Well I just kinda thought if I could make a setup work with stuff I already have or not needing many things.. I could do something I like, learn something, and enjoy a hydraulic setup independent of my electrical system..

    Im sorry :/
     
  6. Galane

    Galane Full Access Member

    Age:
    49
    Posts:
    107
    Likes Received:
    10
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Location:
    Idaho
    First Name:
    Gregg
    Truck Year:
    1982
    Truck Model:
    Sierra 3500
    Engine Size:
    350
    A google for
    power steering pump for hydraulic plow pump
    turns up some interesting results. Looks like it can be done, with the right valves and other equipment. If you have a metal lathe or have access to one it should be possible to adapt an air conditioner magnetic clutch to the pump so it's only running when you need to move things.

    With single acting cylinders for lift and left/right angle it would open the valve and engage the pump to lift then close it and disengage the pump when at the desired height. Operating the control for down would open the valve with the pump disengaged and the backflow routed to the reservoir.

    To angle left, open both angle cylinder valves then use a double two way toggle valve to feed fluid to the side you want to push forward while the other flows freely back to the reservoir. One half of the valve controls fluid to the cylinders, the other controls the back flow.

    Double acting cylinders need more hose and pipe, but you can get by with two cylinders and can do things like forcing the blade down to scrape harder at tough ice.
     
    Turbo4whl likes this.
  7. AuroraGirl

    AuroraGirl Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Age:
    22
    Posts:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    1,062
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2019
    Location:
    Northern Wisconsin
    First Name:
    Taylor
    Truck Year:
    1978, 1980
    Truck Model:
    K10, K25
    Engine Size:
    400(?), 350
    I use a single up down
     
  8. AuroraGirl

    AuroraGirl Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Age:
    22
    Posts:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    1,062
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2019
    Location:
    Northern Wisconsin
    First Name:
    Taylor
    Truck Year:
    1978, 1980
    Truck Model:
    K10, K25
    Engine Size:
    400(?), 350
    PH SERIES CLUTCH PUMPS by Muncie
    Muncie makes a clutch pump that mounts under a factory alternator(not able to be mounted with a AC compressor, in that same place/ish, that is multi use.
    https://www.munciepower.com/cms/fil.../Documents/Clutch_Pump/CMKC693540AAC_0194.pdf
    there is a instructions on it. looks like a nice unit, I might go that route for easy/parts/ and i would be able to mount any valve i want and etc, should be okay. Just need to power a piston up and down, not even power down just relief!
     
  9. Turbo4whl

    Turbo4whl Full Access Member

    Posts:
    504
    Likes Received:
    779
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2019
    Location:
    Downingtown, PA
    First Name:
    Wayne
    Truck Year:
    1974
    Truck Model:
    Jimmy
    Engine Size:
    350
    @Galane is right, a power steering pump could work. You would not have, to have a clutch on the pump. You would need an open center control valve with a relief valve in it, or added to the circuit.

    With and extra capacity reservoir you would be able to use one pump for the steering and the lift cylinder both.

    The lift control valve would be the key part. Needs to be open center with power beyond. You would only loose steering assist when you lift the plow. Otherwise two pumps.


    Some pressure info:

    https://itstillruns.com/average-psi-cars-power-steering-pump-12287453.html
     
    AuroraGirl likes this.
  10. AuroraGirl

    AuroraGirl Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Age:
    22
    Posts:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    1,062
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2019
    Location:
    Northern Wisconsin
    First Name:
    Taylor
    Truck Year:
    1978, 1980
    Truck Model:
    K10, K25
    Engine Size:
    400(?), 350
    So what Im thinking before seeing the Muncie option, maybe high-mount my PS pump and LOW mount a type II ps pump, run it to an external reservoir(which I already have one for my truck... custom made. even takes saginaw cap lol. Then run from there to a control valve which I am hoping to make it remotely operated. SoI dont have a damn pushrod going through my dash and a poorly wired push button switch. but thats QOL more than necessity.

    But I guess, like mentioned before wouldnt their be an issue with turning a pump relieving pressure 99% of the time? Thats the only reason I looked at clutch pumps or options. I guess its the only reason i can think of to not use a PS pump.

    from my research, a 3 way(1 neutral, 1 actuate, 1 closed) normally closed valve would be needed, because the pump is always turning, always making pressure, but i dont want it always lifting a cylinder, yes?
     
  11. Turbo4whl

    Turbo4whl Full Access Member

    Posts:
    504
    Likes Received:
    779
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2019
    Location:
    Downingtown, PA
    First Name:
    Wayne
    Truck Year:
    1974
    Truck Model:
    Jimmy
    Engine Size:
    350
    Simple physics laws: Pressure is created with resistance to flow. Normal P/S pump is moving oil, but the valve in the steering box lets the oil return to the reservoir. (open center)
    When you move the steering wheel, this moves the valve in the box so the oil is not returning to the reservior. Now the oil flow has resistance to move the piston and pressure increases.

    This is why you want an open center valve for your plow lift. The pump will not be making a lot of pressure until you trigger the valve (lever or electric solenoid). Then the oil will divert to the plow cylinder.
     
  12. AuroraGirl

    AuroraGirl Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Age:
    22
    Posts:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    1,062
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2019
    Location:
    Northern Wisconsin
    First Name:
    Taylor
    Truck Year:
    1978, 1980
    Truck Model:
    K10, K25
    Engine Size:
    400(?), 350
    So would it have any issues riding against the relief inside the pump unused? If I go this route, I will likely keep a tool set in the truck specifically for the belt to tension it or take it off.. although I'm gonna have to make sure it's the outer belt or I'm gonna hate myself lol
     
  13. Turbo4whl

    Turbo4whl Full Access Member

    Posts:
    504
    Likes Received:
    779
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2019
    Location:
    Downingtown, PA
    First Name:
    Wayne
    Truck Year:
    1974
    Truck Model:
    Jimmy
    Engine Size:
    350
    With the open center valve the pump will not be running in relief. The pump will hit relief when you raise the plow and the single acting cylinder is filled with oil at full up. When the valve is off, oil flows back through the open center valve.

    Here is a video of an open center valve. This is just to show you the path of the oil when you are not operating the valve. This is not the correct valve for your operation. Please remember what I stated earlier, pressure is resistance to flow. With an open center valve the oil returns to the tank (reservoir) with little resistance, so low pressure, pump not in relief.

     
    AuroraGirl likes this.
  14. shiftpro

    shiftpro Full Access Member

    Posts:
    3,462
    Likes Received:
    3,397
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2012
    Location:
    BC Canada
    First Name:
    shiftpro
    Truck Year:
    73-87
    Truck Model:
    1500, 2500, 3500
    Engine Size:
    350, 383, 454, 496!
    Weld the plow stationary to the frame and put on hydro suspension. Raise and lower the truck instead of the plow.
    Beer really does make me smarter.
     
    AuroraGirl, Blue Ox and Vbb199 like this.
  15. Vbb199

    Vbb199 B-rate Hillbilly Customs Supporting Member

    Age:
    26
    Posts:
    3,559
    Likes Received:
    4,487
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2018
    Location:
    Salisbury NC
    First Name:
    Vince
    Truck Year:
    91, 89, 87
    Truck Model:
    91 Blazer V1500- "K5ton", 87 K10 Suburban, 89 Suburban R1500
    Engine Size:
    502, 350, 350

    Random question, but we're kicking around on this thread anyway, how's your little guy?
     

Share This Page