Steering Gearbox Blues

82sbshortbed · Apr 15, 2021

Well, how did it do?

AuroraGirl · Apr 16, 2021

45acp said:
. X2 on redhead. If you want to replace it only once buy redhead. They are a little pricey,but they are the best gear box on the market.

if my life is any indicator, redheads are very pricey, very tempramental, and will easily suck the life out of you

but oh, were they so fun

but im not talking about the brand

Bennyt · Apr 16, 2021

I understand that the box is the culprit but other factors could create additional stress(es) on the bix. I'd inspect the frame real well to make sure there is no hidden cracks. I'd also add a brace from Autopower or ORD. Also, ensure bumper bolts are tight.

I don't know what your set-up is but if the tires are 33's or larger it'll wear out a box pretty quickly. Larger than 35's, really need to do crossover.

scenic760 · Mar 8, 2022

I just got my 81 K1500 Suburban up and running (it sat for 5 years before I got it) and the steering box is almost free flowing...I just ordered a Lares rebuilt unit from Rock Auto to replace it. While it was sitting, I replaced the shaft with the Jeep variety and when I repositioned it in the driveway the steering actually felt pretty good.

Does the ORD brace make the steering feel even better?

I think those braces are a NECESSITY on these trucks anyways...I had an 83 K5 about 20 years ago and I was working in Malibu. It was an hour drive one way and I needed to drive up and over a mountain. One day coming home I pulled into a gas station and when I tried to pull away, POP the steering box came off the frame. Had that happened while I was going over the mountain I probably wouldn't be here. After that I swore I would never again buy a GM product...and here I am

Grit dog · Mar 9, 2022

I’ve been thinking about putting a frame brace on our truck. Amazingly it’s not even slightly cracked yet.
Regarding reman steering boxes, it’s a crap shoot.
Had the steering box basically lock up on our old 07 Dodge diesel at low miles. Quick fix was a cheap Napa reman that was supposedly not even for diesels but just gas powered trucks. That was at 70k miles. Sold the truck with almost 190k and it still worked great, didn’t leak and was pretty tight.
But I went through 3 reman steering pumps on that truck in anywhere from 30k miles to 5k miles. And couple years ago, 4 alternators for a Chevy before I made it out of the Napa parking lot with a working one!
Agree, buy new if you can afford it or save your receipts!

SirRobyn0 · Mar 9, 2022

The whole frame cracking thing has been discussed here before, but I'm not sure if it has been in this thread so I'll say what I know from my experience, both personally and at the shop. I think it is blown way out of proportion. Yes, I know it happens, and can be dangerous but I don't think it happens overnight, and I think only after some serious abuse at some point. Chris, I'm not saying you abused your previous truck, but I think to get to the point where the box actually comes off the frame the damage has been building. Perhaps before you owned it, something happened when the former owner had it. When you really think about the Saginaw power steering pump, the amount of pressure it produces and how easy it is to turn the wheel in these trucks even with big tires, it's not hard to image how someone could inadvertently stress the heck out of the frame by turning the wheels with a great deal of force into and unmovable object like a curb. One or two of the bolts perhaps cracks the frame either fully or partially. Now there is movement where there isn't suppose to be and over time more cracks and stress occurs because the box is no longer properly attached to the frame and eventually in worse case scenario total steering failure.

The good news is the most likely time for this, or any other steering component to fail is at low speed where there is more resistance on the tires when the wheel is turned.

Side note: Did you know that at least up into the late 60's the larger Gillig built school buses with power steering, they came with the warning that the bus should be rolling when the steering wheel was turned. They were so heavy and steering so easy to turn that they were concerned about "steering system component damage" from turning the tires with the bus stopped. Obviously I know a square is not a school bus, but I thought you might find that warning interesting.

I'm fed a relatively steady diet of square body trucks and a few 60's GM trucks at work. These vary from very nice driver type condition where they are to nice to really want to haul anything in to farm trucks. The farm trucks can be pickups or medium duty rigs. Of course as you'd expect the farm trucks are all 2wds and I've heard that the problem mostly pertains to 4wd trucks. I'm yet to see a box actually come off. But then I've never seen a square catch fire because of a side impact, which of course we know has happened. Like the fuel tank thing, I think the side saddle tanks are safer than they were in the cab like in the 60's. I think pulling the box and closely inspecting the frame is enough in a truck not used hard, but just like some folks like to move the fuel tank to the rear because it is safer, if it makes you feel safer install the steering brace, it's a small cost for your peace of mind. I just thought you'd might be interesting to read one mechanics take on the steering box / frame crack issue.

I have no experience with Lares, we use Redhead, but they are close enough to the shop that they will deliver to us.

Keith Seymore · Mar 9, 2022

One of the things you can do with a K truck is crank the caster way (WAY) up - like 10 or 12 degrees.

We used to do that on customer complaint vehicles that dealers couldn't fix.

That will make it rock solid "on center".

K

idahovette · Mar 9, 2022

@Keith Seymore , did you use tapered shims...steel?

Keith Seymore · Mar 9, 2022

Yes to shims, no to steel.

I'm not sure what the material was, but I'm pretty sure they were not steel.

scenic760 · Mar 10, 2022

SirRobyn0 said:
The whole frame cracking thing has been discussed here before, but I'm not sure if it has been in this thread so I'll say what I know from my experience, both personally and at the shop. I think it is blown way out of proportion. Yes, I know it happens, and can be dangerous but I don't think it happens overnight, and I think only after some serious abuse at some point. Chris, I'm not saying you abused your previous truck, but I think to get to the point where the box actually comes off the frame the damage has been building. Perhaps before you owned it, something happened when the former owner had it. When you really think about the Saginaw power steering pump, the amount of pressure it produces and how easy it is to turn the wheel in these trucks even with big tires, it's not hard to image how someone could inadvertently stress the heck out of the frame by turning the wheels with a great deal of force into and unmovable object like a curb. One or two of the bolts perhaps cracks the frame either fully or partially. Now there is movement where there isn't suppose to be and over time more cracks and stress occurs because the box is no longer properly attached to the frame and eventually in worse case scenario total steering failure.

The good news is the most likely time for this, or any other steering component to fail is at low speed where there is more resistance on the tires when the wheel is turned.

Side note: Did you know that at least up into the late 60's the larger Gillig built school buses with power steering, they came with the warning that the bus should be rolling when the steering wheel was turned. They were so heavy and steering so easy to turn that they were concerned about "steering system component damage" from turning the tires with the bus stopped. Obviously I know a square is not a school bus, but I thought you might find that warning interesting.

I'm fed a relatively steady diet of square body trucks and a few 60's GM trucks at work. These vary from very nice driver type condition where they are to nice to really want to haul anything in to farm trucks. The farm trucks can be pickups or medium duty rigs. Of course as you'd expect the farm trucks are all 2wds and I've heard that the problem mostly pertains to 4wd trucks. I'm yet to see a box actually come off. But then I've never seen a square catch fire because of a side impact, which of course we know has happened. Like the fuel tank thing, I think the side saddle tanks are safer than they were in the cab like in the 60's. I think pulling the box and closely inspecting the frame is enough in a truck not used hard, but just like some folks like to move the fuel tank to the rear because it is safer, if it makes you feel safer install the steering brace, it's a small cost for your peace of mind. I just thought you'd might be interesting to read one mechanics take on the steering box / frame crack issue.

I have no experience with Lares, we use Redhead, but they are close enough to the shop that they will deliver to us.

Your experience and words ring true Rob!

In my mid 20's I thought I was indestructible so I probably thought everything else must have been as well...I did a decent amount of wheeling around in the sand dunes and the daily trip up and down the mountain would have been hard on a Vette, much less a K5 with 33's (if IIRC), not to mention it had been in one accident I know of so I think you are spot on that it didn't happen overnight.

I jumped back in the square body world about a year ago and the box popping off the frame was one of those experiences you never forget and after reading a lot of the forum posts, I thought that it was just a given it would happen at one point (kind of like rust at the cowl seam). I appreciate your wisdom and experience and it gives me a tremendous amount of confidence in putting my kids in the truck with me at this point. My desert dune days are behind me but an occasional ski trip is right up my alley and now I know what to look for.

This forum, and more importantly it's members, have guided (and continue to guide) me through a rewarding rebuild! SOOO many thanks to everyone!

SirRobyn0 · Mar 10, 2022

scenic760 said:
Your experience and words ring true Rob!

In my mid 20's I thought I was indestructible so I probably thought everything else must have been as well...I did a decent amount of wheeling around in the sand dunes and the daily trip up and down the mountain would have been hard on a Vette, much less a K5 with 33's (if IIRC), not to mention it had been in one accident I know of so I think you are spot on that it didn't happen overnight.

I jumped back in the square body world about a year ago and the box popping off the frame was one of those experiences you never forget and after reading a lot of the forum posts, I thought that it was just a given it would happen at one point (kind of like rust at the cowl seam). I appreciate your wisdom and experience and it gives me a tremendous amount of confidence in putting my kids in the truck with me at this point. My desert dune days are behind me but an occasional ski trip is right up my alley and now I know what to look for.

This forum, and more importantly it's members, have guided (and continue to guide) me through a rewarding rebuild! SOOO many thanks to everyone!

As you might image I'm not surprised to hear that at all. Since I'd already written several paragraphs I thought about saying this but did not. Seems much more prevalent in trucks that go off road and are off roaded hard. Have big tires, ect.

I'm pretty much a double check that I locked the gate before I leave, wear my seat belt, look out for what the other guy might do to me on the road, but I really don't worry about the gear box thing or the side saddle tanks, but on the other hand if I'd had a bad experience with either the tanks or the boxes I'd likely feel differently. And like I said if the bracket will give you some comfort get it. Since it's a used truck, IMO it is worth looking at that area around the bolts real close because you never know what the former owner might have put it through and you'll sleep better knowing it's all good there.

The cowling rust is a problem for sure, but IMO even more than that is rust in the windshield channel.

AuroraGirl · Mar 10, 2022

Keith Seymore said:
Yes to shims, no to steel.

I'm not sure what the material was, but I'm pretty sure they were not steel.

these kinds of shims

You must be registered for see images attach

?

scenic760 · Mar 10, 2022

SirRobyn0 said:
As you might image I'm not surprised to hear that at all. Since I'd already written several paragraphs I thought about saying this but did not. Seems much more prevalent in trucks that go off road and are off roaded hard. Have big tires, ect.

I'm pretty much a double check that I locked the gate before I leave, wear my seat belt, look out for what the other guy might do to me on the road, but I really don't worry about the gear box thing or the side saddle tanks, but on the other hand if I'd had a bad experience with either the tanks or the boxes I'd likely feel differently. And like I said if the bracket will give you some comfort get it. Since it's a used truck, IMO it is worth looking at that area around the bolts real close because you never know what the former owner might have put it through and you'll sleep better knowing it's all good there.

The cowling rust is a problem for sure, but IMO even more than that is rust in the windshield channel.

Haha...once again I am hearing you!

Fortunately in this case, since I'm taking the steering gear off anyways, I can get a good look at the frame and be reasonably confidant in it's integrity. And also since I have it all apart, I should probably add the steering brace because it looks like I can buy my way out of any (well, limited anyways) mental anguish for a mere $140...

SirRobyn0 · Mar 10, 2022

scenic760 said:
Haha...once again I am hearing you!

Fortunately in this case, since I'm taking the steering gear off anyways, I can get a good look at the frame and be reasonably confidant in it's integrity. And also since I have it all apart, I should probably add the steering brace because it looks like I can buy my way out of any (well, limited anyways) mental anguish for a mere $140...

Ya, that's a small price for peace of mind!

scenic760 · Mar 10, 2022

SirRobyn0 said:
Ya, that's a small price for peace of mind!

Yes sir! Less than the price of tank of gas in California...

Quick question, I was looking at ORD and then someone mentioned Autofab..the two items look identical to me...do you think one is better than the other? Autofab is about 30 mins from me which I like...they seem to imply they fabricate their own stuff too? Does ORD sell their stuff or vice versa?!?

Bolt In Steering Box Brace for '81-91 GM 4WD Trucks

www.offroaddesign.com

1981 to 1991 Chevy and GMC 4x4 Cracked Frame Repair Kit - Autofab

Bolt-in frame reinforcing kit stops frame flex which causes cracks. Fits 81-87 Chevy and GMC K10, K20, and K30 4X4 trucks. Also fits 81-91 4X4 Blazers, Jimmys, and Suburbans. Cracks in the frame must be repaired prior to installation. The Autofab steering box gusset kit will keep the frame from...

autofab.com

Steering Gearbox Blues

82sbshortbed

Fuckemall!!

AuroraGirl

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Bolt In Steering Box Brace for '81-91 GM 4WD Trucks

1981 to 1991 Chevy and GMC 4x4 Cracked Frame Repair Kit - Autofab

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