Starter electrical

[go350125]

Truck wasn't starting, so I replaced the starter and battery because they were both dodgey at best. That worked for a few starts, but now it's not starting again. The battery hasn't lost charge so I'm comfortable ruling out the alternator. So I figure it's something holding back the current between the battery and the starter. Any ideas on what that might be or alternative theories?
Thanks.

 

[smurph20]

Might be either a bad ground look for the thread about the BIG 3 on here or could be a bad positive cable getting hot. Of course make sure all you connections a clean and tight including all the connections where the cables are attached to the cable ends that are bolted to the starter and battery. Might also be something in the column.

 

[Leftlane]

Got headers? Could be heating that starter up pretty quick, if so. That's what was happening to my rig, anyway.

Once it stops starting, does it eventually start working again or do you have to charge the battery (doesn't sound like it), or that's it - it simply doesn't work now at all...?

 

[oneluckypops]

Dave
First welcome to the forum, A Little information about what were working on is always helpful.

I am not sure what your mechanical abilities are, but Simple diagnostics goes along way. It is easy to test the starting and charging systems, but there are some things that you will need. DVM and an extra set of hands.
I am not going to take the time to list all the testing as of yet.

First test you need to do is a Battery test, when I say Battery test I do not mean to see if the head lights come on. Instead you need to find out what condition the battery is. It can be done with a DVM.

1. Connect the Positive lead from the multi meter to the Positive POST of the Battery NOT the Positive cable.
2. Then connect the Negative lead of the multimeter to the Negative POST of the battery NOT the negative CABLE.
3. Observe the meters reading's you should have 12.6 volts on a fully charged battery.
4. Next with the multi meter still attached to the battery POSTS, have an assistant crank the engine, Observe the reading on the multi meter, It should be at LEAST 9.5 volts. Any less then 9.5 volts and the battery needs to be recharged then tested again.

Now if the battery tests described above all check good then it is time to do a voltage drop test on the starting system. To do the voltage drop test you will need
you multi meter and an assistant again.

1. Connect your positive lead to the POST on the starter motor.
2. Then connect your Negative Lead to the Starter motor POST from the solenoid.
3. Have your helper crank the engine, Your meter should read NO MORE then 0.5-0.7 Volts.
If you get a reading Higher then 0.7 then you have a resistance in the circuit, which is a loose, or corroded connection in your Positive Battery cable between the battery and the starter motor.
4. Connect your Positive lead to the NEGATIVE battery POST.
5. Then connect your Negative lead to a clean unpainted surface on the starter motor itself.
6. Have your helper crank the engine, Your meter should read NO MORE then 0.2-0.3 Volts.
If your reading on the Negative side Higher then the 0.3 volts you have a restinance on the Ground side of the Circuit, which would either be a loose or corroded Ground cable from the battery to the engine block itself.

Another test that needs to be done and should actually be done before the voltage drop testing is a source voltage test at the solenoid. To do this test you will need a multi meter and a helper again.
1. Connect your multi meter Positive lead to the Solenoid POST labeled (S).
2. Connect your Negative lead to a clean unpainted surface of the starter solenoid.
3. Have your helper crank the engine.
4. You should have battery a voltage reading equal to the voltage of your battery.
If you don't, have any voltage then you need to check the neutral safety switch.

 

[Brandon_l1000]

hey guys im having the same issue i can turn my key and it would growl no nothing at all took the starter and battery and had them tested and they are good put them back on turned the key and nothing no ever a growl idk maybe broke wire or back switch?

 

[oneluckypops]

start with some testing, i gave a pretty basic outline on how to get started,

 

[Brandon_l1000]

That would be great

 

[go350125]

Hey guys, thanks for the help. I continued with some simple diagnostics and it turned out to be the positive battery cable. I replaced both cables and it's been solid starting since and we've been getting down to -10C (14F)

 

[Brandon_l1000]

mine turned out to be the solenoid the post just turned

 

[Eric Sprouse]

Since I installed Hooker ceramic headers on my 1987 R-10 I have had starter issues. I have a new battery and starter but after a short drive it wont start until it cools down. A very inconvenient problem. I called JEGS since I got my headers there. They indicate the solenoid is getting too hot. I bought their starter insulated wrap to cover the starter and solenoid. Still didn't work. Another Forum said a mini high torque starter and remote solenoid is the answer. I am still looking for the cure. I don't want to get rid of the headers but if that means dependability I will. Any truck owners had this happen. The header is very close to the starter.

 

[HotRodPC]

Is this still a TBI truck or have you converted it to Carb? What did you do about the 02 Sensors?

 

[Eric Sprouse]

It’s still an TBI that has been gone through.
The 02 sensors are located into the headers.

 

[HotRodPC]

Ok, just trying to rule a vapor lock situation because the problem you describe is symptoms of a vapor lock situation or advanced timing.

So does this happen immediately after you shut the truck off? Like pull into the driveway at home, shut it off and try to start it right back up and it slow cranks or is it like a situation where you walk into a convenience store, come back out 5 or 10 minutes later and it slow cranks?

 

[Kyle Childress]

Ive never seen the headers causing a issue with the solenoid before, and a square body with a set of hooker comps are the most common thing in existence. I agree with Hotrodpc, it sounds more like a vapor lock issue or timing is to far advanced. Also Jegs may not have any idea, if you ever need tech support on anything Hooker headers related or holley call them up direct, get a lot better info that way. When I worked Tech Support for Holley I found vapor lock to be a huge issue now with the ethanol rich gas we have now a days, move fuel lines away from headers and engine block, helps a lot.

 

[HotRodPC]

TBI shouldn't be having a vapor lock issue though and the fuel line comes in almost center of the block over the bellhousing, though that doesn't mean it can't be heating a fuel line back a bit further where it crosses from the frame rail and it is almost an all steel line all the way up.

To find out if it's the starter heat or vapor lock can be determined by when this happens and why I asked how long it takes after you shut it off. So take the truck for a good little drive and make sure it's had a chance to get good and hot. Shut the truck off. As soon as you shut it off, start it back up and shut it back off a few times. If it starts right up 2 or 3 times right after you shut it off then you know it's not the starter because the starter should have already been affected by the heat.

If you shut it off and wait about 5-10 minutes, then you have the problem, the fuel has had time to vaporize and if it don't start or slow cranks then there's your problem. Vapor Lock. You might have to thermal wrap your fuel lines and see if that makes a difference. Or retard the initial timing a bit. Also why I asked what the 02 sensors are doing. If the headers have affected the 02 readings or not accurate it'll make the AF mixture different than it was before also.