crate engine or rebuild original 350?

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Driver4r

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I can do my own 3 angle grinds, and the machinest that my dad and i go to is a close freind so we kinda get a buddy deal.
 

MrMarty51

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I can do my own 3 angle grinds, and the machinest that my dad and i go to is a close freind so we kinda get a buddy deal.

That makes it quite nice,especially,If they`ll allow You to go in and do Your own work.I`d be hanging out there and learning all I could.thats all.LOL
 

HotRodPC

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That makes it quite nice,especially,If they`ll allow You to go in and do Your own work.I`d be hanging out there and learning all I could.thats all.LOL

That's a fact. I'd be hanging out and helping out for FREE just to learn the ****, and have access to do my own stuff for FREE.

However, I know many machine shops don't everything needed. Back in the day, I used 2 different machine shops and neither one had a crank lathe or balancer, so to have the crank turned and rotating assembly balanced, rods were first, cleaned, magged, shot peened, checked for twist, big end resized, ARP rod bolts fitted, then the pistons, rods and crank was sent out and that took a week to get back depending on what all I had done the crank, crossdrilling, tuffridded, extra weight taken off etc, but usually a week for a basicly stock build. And I say basicly cuz non of my builds were stock. EVen the grocery getters got quality builds. Usually by the time the rotating assembly was back, he had my heads and block worked over.
 

belay70

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If you ask me, that #5 rod looks to be twisted on the crank journal too. Or is it the angle of the pic???

Edit, I guess that would be #3 looks twisted. The first one on the left in the pic. Angle of the pic maybe... :shrug:

First on the left in the pic? First on the left (rear of engine) would have to be a rod for cylinders 7 or 8.
 

belay70

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A big "IF" the cylinders are within spec of a simple rering do NOT hone the cylinders if they are clean without gouges and major scratrches.This is a very contrroversial issue,but,I rebuilt an engine just recently and decided that I was going to do the unthinkeable and try just one time to not hone the cylinders.
It works,I fired that engine up and it had the initial smoke of burning offd the oil and assembly lube and then it dried up,no smoke and has not used a drop of oil since.
I have spent a lot of time studying this and the " SAE "{Society of auto. engineers} had done an extensive study and rebuilt quite a few engines with 1/2 of them that had good cylinders and not honing those but honing the ones that would clean up and still be within specs. the ones that were honed used slightly more oil than the non honed engines anmd the non honed engines run farther before needing another rebuild than the honed engines.
An old machinist I had worked for kept telling Me,or asking "Why would anyone screw up a perfectly machined surface by honing" to which I was always real sceptic and would not think of assembling an engine without honing,after all how could the rings ever get broke in,and so with that last rebuild I just had to give it a try.

Now that intrigues me. Ive always felt that things get overstated for the sake of safety or engineers. Engines are no exception. Im not trained as a machinist and Im not a mechanical engineer, but Ive seen real-world examples of engines, whole vehicles, that continued to function, some very well, when they just shouldnt have. I have restored one 1943 jeep and had the engine professionally machined and polished, etc and it runs fine, but runs hotter than it should. I later took another jeep engine and simply replaced a few things like rings and bearings and it runs just fine. Ive also heard tales of engines completely gone through, owners swearing they had done the recondition by the book, spent big money, and it fails first or second time out.

But the minute you say anything about it, practiced mechanics and hobbyists call you a heretic. I think the things we all believe about what it takes to "properly" recondition an engine have been simply stated and parroted over the years, until its simply dogma. Im not saying I dont believe those things, but I think there is plenty of reason to be cynical and critically think about it.

I wonder just how little you'd have to do to a 20-30 year old engine, to make it continue to function well for another 15-20 yrs. Im not going to experiment with this engine that way, but it just makes me wonder....
 

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As far as what MrMarty51 said about not even honing the bores, I actually would be totally on board with that. But as he pointed out too, there are ifs that go along with it. Back when I was doing some snowmobile work with some buddies, we wouldn't hone out the jugs if they were still in reasonable condition. We would re-ring them if the cranking pressure was getting out of spec. A simple re-ring would bring them back equal with each other. I see no reason why this same philosophy would not translate to a small block.

belay70, I don't remember if you ever said, but why are you posing this question anyway? Besides being old, is your motor showing symptoms of needing attention to warrant a rebuild? I am just being curious.
 

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I wonder just how little you'd have to do to a 20-30 year old engine, to make it continue to function well for another 15-20 yrs. Im not going to experiment with this engine that way, but it just makes me wonder....

That is just the type of an engine I did`nt hone the cylinders on.
A 1959 Dodge W100 4x4 with the 318 two barrel.
 

belay70

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belay70, I don't remember if you ever said, but why are you posing this question anyway? Besides being old, is your motor showing symptoms of needing attention to warrant a rebuild? I am just being curious.

It was running just ok, cursing myself for not taking a compression test before tearing the truck apart. Ive disassembled the entire truck with the intention of restoring her. The engine may have been perfectly fine to begin with, but I didnt want to restore the rest of the truck and put an old engine back in, without giving it some attention. Figured a 33 year old engine should be ready for some basic refreshing.
 

philjafo

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Just thought I'd toss my tw cents up here, your not looking for a tire shredder just a mild stock rebuild right. Rebuild the bottom half, rings, bearings and depending on condition bore and hone. I agree with not honing the cylinders if they are still good. New cam and lifters 1979 was deep in the smog era, even a stock cam from a better year would be an awesome improvement. For the top half vortec heads, hands down for the money there is nothing else. They can be had for a decent price new and I'm sure they're available used but for the price of new why would you take a chance on getting screwed with unknown parts. The only downside to the vortec heads would be needing new intake and valve covers, if you can call it a downside the stock iron intake has to weigh 30 lbs more than an aluminum one not to mention it flows for crap. A lot of guys hate the Q-jet but they are good carbs and a good rebuild that fixes the few trouble areas and you've got a reliable good performing carb that's easy on fuel if you can keep your foot out of it. There you have it a recipe for a mildly warmed over stock rebuild using the best parts from a motor thats been in production for what almost 60 years.
 

belay70

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How much are the vortec heads you're suggesting? Intake?

I agree on the carb. I'm certain it's stock, how do I identify the carb to be certain it's a Q jet?
 

philjafo

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http://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet+Performance/809/12558060/10002/-1

$620 for a set from jegs, I don't know what a machine shop would charge to take the smog heads on a 79 350 and magnaflux them and recondition them then port and polish them so the come close to the out of the box performance of the vortecs, but I'm pretty sure its more then 620 bucks. If your sure its the stock carb then its a Rochester Quadra-jet. As far as I know its the only carb gm ever put on these trucks.
 

Driver4r

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You HAVE to hone a cylinder to get a crosshatch pattern on the wall.
 

belay70

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Has anyone ever come across NOS parts for these old chevy engines? I wonder what cost would be for original, unused heads, same as what I have?

Im looking at the Vortec heads and they seem to only supply 67cc per cyl, while my factory heads supply 76cc per cyl. How do the Vortecs give better performance?

And I see the rocker arms and nuts are NOT included - and steam holes arent drilled out. Arent these aftermarket heads sold ready to bolt on?
 

belay70

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Ebay search turned up reconditioned stock heads for 400/pair and he said he'd thrown in a good used set of rocker arms and nuts. He mentioned I would have to adjust each rocker arm nut with the engine running, oil squirting in my face, to get them just right??!! I think he was "having a laugh" as the brits say. He also mentioned many guys just reuse their existing rocker arms, pushrods, etc. The book Im using to guide my hand through this process - HP Books "How to rebuild your small block chevy" indicates just the opposite - that most of the time heads and their components like rocker arms, etc are too work to be reused. How do I tell if mine are too worn? I dont have a micrometer.

Im still astounded these heads arent sold ready to bolt on. Being a precision piece, Id think the adjustment would be a known clearance amount and pushrods and arms installed to that measurement. no?
 
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