700r4 getting hot.

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4WDKC

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Ok, so by those numbers, theoretically when I get it locking up I should be able to do 70 at roughly 1900-2000 RPM which would still be above the stall rpm or course unless the torque converter was changed out or something entirely else is going on or burned up.

Now, I have heard about torque converter shuddering before. If that were a problem I would feel that as the converter tries to lock but it cant therefore giving a shudder while at speed? There have been times I get a kind of shudder but its near a shift point at a lower gear and only does it occasionally. I chalked it up to fuel delivery or carb tuning. Could that be something to worry about with the transmission?

what gears and tire size? 4.10s 34.5" tires with od lock up 18-1900 rpm at 70 is what I have in my truck.
 

Dutch Rutter

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what gears and tire size? 4.10s 34.5" tires with od lock up 18-1900 rpm at 70 is what I have in my truck.

I believe gears to be 4:10s, tires are 33" so If my thinking is correct with my slightly smaller tire I should maybe be 100-150 rpm higher. Which will be good.

That brake switch, should have constant power to it somewhere and my thinking it probably does since my brake lights come on when the pedal is pressed and key is off. This also makes me believe the switch itself is functional. I do need to and will verify this with the tester. I will then trace the wires from the switch. I looked online and found most people say the Orange wire on the front plug to be constant power, the white wire on the front plug to be for the brake lights, while the rear plug is for cruise control and Torque converter lock up.

If I have power going to the orange wire but don't have power passing to the rear plug wires my switch may be bad. If no power to the Orange wire then I need to find why it isn't getting power.


Does this sound about right? or do I need more/less coffee?
 

4WDKC

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I believe gears to be 4:10s, tires are 33" so If my thinking is correct with my slightly smaller tire I should maybe be 100-150 rpm higher. Which will be good.

That brake switch, should have constant power to it somewhere and my thinking it probably does since my brake lights come on when the pedal is pressed and key is off. This also makes me believe the switch itself is functional. I do need to and will verify this with the tester. I will then trace the wires from the switch. I looked online and found most people say the Orange wire on the front plug to be constant power, the white wire on the front plug to be for the brake lights, while the rear plug is for cruise control and Torque converter lock up.

If I have power going to the orange wire but don't have power passing to the rear plug wires my switch may be bad. If no power to the Orange wire then I need to find why it isn't getting power.


Does this sound about right? or do I need more/less coffee?

Yeah that sounds right.
 

Dutch Rutter

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Yeah that sounds right.

So during tonight's adventure in the dark. I found found a loose wire on the brake switch. Fixed that, Then I was able to identify the white wire with the black line as the one which would feed to the converter, I made sure it had constant power from the Ign. I then applied the brake to make sure it went off, which it did. Then started at the vacuum switch verified power there, and to the transmission. So power is good now!

Took it for a drive and no change at all. So now I need to rule out the vacuum switch ground side. Looks like tomorrow's adventure will be cutting the wire, and jumping to a ground with the key on. Or is there a better way to do this without cutting the wire?
 

Dougnsalem

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....are you physically testing the fuses or just looking at them?

Just looking at the moment since I only have this cheapie tester. I don't mind replacing them all just to be on the safe side, honestly there are only maybe 8 or so. I believe I have brand new ones in the glove box as well

I have gotten burned on this a couple times over the years. I have had the old school glass fuses look great, but have the very end of the filiment (hidden under the end cap) be broken. Same with the ato blade style fuses. Anymore, I don't consider a fuse to be known good, unless I check it with a test light. Even a cheap ass Harbor Freight tester, works great. Sounds like you're getting a handle on it- this was just for anyone else that stumbles on this....
 

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I didn't want to read all 8 pages, so I'm cheating a bit and might be repeating something already said, so forgive me ahead of time if I do.

So I noticed you mentioned, you installed the gauge, THEN notice the temp. So for this gauge you don't have a "normal" as of yet right??? Is it safe to assume that this is an electric gauge and not a manual gauge? First things first for me, I'd want to make sure the guage is accurate. Are you 100% certain that you have the correct sender for this gauge? Does the gauge stay at this spot all the time for now?
 

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Splicing is probably best option unless it also goes to the diagnostic connector(if one existed in 82). And then apply ground using a toggle switch while driving, or you might hear it from under the pan
So during tonight's adventure in the dark. I found found a loose wire on the brake switch. Fixed that, Then I was able to identify the white wire with the black line as the one which would feed to the converter, I made sure it had constant power from the Ign. I then applied the brake to make sure it went off, which it did. Then started at the vacuum switch verified power there, and to the transmission. So power is good now!

Took it for a drive and no change at all. So now I need to rule out the vacuum switch ground side. Looks like tomorrow's adventure will be cutting the wire, and jumping to a ground with the key on. Or is there a better way to do this without cutting the wire?
 

Dutch Rutter

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I have gotten burned on this a couple times over the years. I have had the old school glass fuses look great, but have the very end of the filiment (hidden under the end cap) be broken. Same with the ato blade style fuses. Anymore, I don't consider a fuse to be known good, unless I check it with a test light. Even a cheap ass Harbor Freight tester, works great. Sounds like you're getting a handle on it- this was just for anyone else that stumbles on this....

This would have been a great way to test them out! What I ended up doing was taking the fuse out, I clipped part of my tester to one side of the fuse's spade then put the other side of the fuse to my positive battery terminal and the tester point to the negative. Worked pretty well, even found a bad RDO fuse but I think that is for the OEM radio. Replaced it anyway.

Splicing is probably best option unless it also goes to the diagnostic connector(if one existed in 82). And then apply ground using a toggle switch while driving, or you might hear it from under the pan

This is what I think I am going to be doing. Would there be a point in which I will want to be able to turn off overdrive in 4th gear? Like pulling a trailer up a hill. Basically would it be beneficial to be able to turn it unlock the torque converter at will from the cab, or would that more of a trouble then benefit?

I didn't want to read all 8 pages, so I'm cheating a bit and might be repeating something already said, so forgive me ahead of time if I do.

So I noticed you mentioned, you installed the gauge, THEN notice the temp. So for this gauge you don't have a "normal" as of yet right??? Is it safe to assume that this is an electric gauge and not a manual gauge? First things first for me, I'd want to make sure the gauge is accurate. Are you 100% certain that you have the correct sender for this gauge? Does the gauge stay at this spot all the time for now?

Hey HotRod, I don't blame you 8 pages is quite a bit so I'll summarize a little bit. Been driving the truck since I bought it about a 1.5 years ago. Have had no indication of a trans issue except for a small pan leak. Well that and I've always thought 4th gear was my Torque converter locking up. Now I know better. two week or so ago I want to address the trans pan leak, replaced Pan with a steel OEM depth, gasket with a nice dry install type, and the filter. Topped off the fluid and drove it for about a week. I noticed it seemed to have less power then before the work. Checked the fluid found it to be a dark maroon. Which it was not even that dark before the trans work. Figured I needed to finally install my temp gauge to see what was going on. I verified the gauges and sending unit to be accurate, by boiling the sending unit with the gauges hooked up to a bench battery. I also used a cooking thermometer to also verify the water temp. Once I got the gauge installed I found the trans was getting very hot (the picture of the gauge near 250) I replaced the filter and fluid again, and hooked up both my add on cooler, and radiator cooler doing this the temp is more manageable. The test drive I did, which showed 250 before now only shows 170. Which is good but for being 45 outside I think is might overheat in the summer. While troubleshooting everything I believe to have discovered my torque converter has not been locking up since purchase. Basically I've been driving it like a 4 speed auto with no lockup.

To answer your questions, No I'm still learning where the gauge should be sitting, I do not really know what the normal operating temp for one of these transmissions should be. It is an electronic gauge, I am currently using the OEM water gauge since I like the cleaner look, but I also have the gauge which came with the sender and it reads the same as the OEM. Nope, neither gauge hangs in any spot they both start zeroed them climb as I drive. They do also fall a bit down if I stop and crank the E-fan on the cooler. So I believe the gauges to be accurate and functioning properly.

Funny thing, this morning coming into work. I tried driving it like normal in D on the freeway and at 65 mph I was seeing 2100 RPM, 70 only 2200 RPM but I did not feel another shift or anything. It did drive as I would expect it to if the converter was locked. Kind of lugging unless the throttle was opened up and the trans downshifted, very well seems like its locking when shifting into 4th like 74 shortbed said, just wish I could verify this. Also I read somewhere that if driving with the Converter locked you should be able to press the brake pedal (unlocking the Converter) and you will see a small increase in RPM. I tried that and no increase. Also the temp was great, Max I saw was 140 and this morning it was about 40 outside. So I'm officially at a loss.
 
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Dutch Rutter

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For anyone who may stumble on this in the future. I was able to verify 100% that my torque converter is indeed locking up.

I verified this by driving on flat at 70 mph not more then 60% throttle down then while still holding the throttle, I slightly pressed the brakes down, so the lights turned on, but no actual braking was applied. Doing this I saw my RPM increase by 400-500. Released the brake, they dropped right back down. I believe just as @74 Shortbed said, it is locking smoothly at mid to high 3rd or right at the 3-4 shift. Since changing the filter for the second time my fluid temps seem to be in a more normal range. At this point I will be continuing to drive the truck and in summer if I have heat problems I will post back up.

Huge thanks to everyone's help with this whole fiasco!
 

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For anyone who may stumble on this in the future. I was able to verify 100% that my torque converter is indeed locking up.

I verified this by driving on flat at 70 mph not more then 60% throttle down then while still holding the throttle, I slightly pressed the brakes down, so the lights turned on, but no actual braking was applied. Doing this I saw my RPM increase by 400-500. Released the brake, they dropped right back down. I believe just as @74 Shortbed said, it is locking smoothly at mid to high 3rd or right at the 3-4 shift. Since changing the filter for the second time my fluid temps seem to be in a more normal range. At this point I will be continuing to drive the truck and in summer if I have heat problems I will post back up.

Huge thanks to everyone's help with this whole fiasco!
Guess that means no beer then, huh?

Lol
 

Dutch Rutter

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Guess that means no beer then, huh?

Lol

Oh no, that will still be happening! Next step is to stop a small engine oil leak from I believe to be my old nasty valve cover breather grommets. Then It'll be time to clean up the engine bay wiring, and vacuum lines, which I am not looking forward to dealing with this rat nest...... I mean.. I don't even know where to begin, and thats not even half of the nastyness this nice looking truck hides.

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Oh no, that will still be happening! Next step is to stop a small engine oil leak from I believe to be my old nasty valve cover breather grommets. Then It'll be time to clean up the engine bay wiring, and vacuum lines, which I am not looking forward to dealing with this rat nest...... I mean.. I don't even know where to begin, and thats not even half of the nastyness this nice looking truck hides.

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Umm, yeah. You better bring a couple cases....

Lol jk
 

74 Shortbed

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Glad to hear you got er figured out...:waytogo:
 
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